157. Close 100% of your discovery calls with Caryn Gillen
What would it do for your business if you could close 100% of your discovery calls?
Well, if you’re a coach or a consultant, then you’re meant to coach!
But to get to coach more, you also need to market.
So, what if showcasing your competency as a coach became the foundation of your marketing?
My guest this week, Caryn Gillen has an amazing knack for closing 100% of her discovery calls without really having to sell.
And her method boils down to showing the world her skills as a coach.
Stay tuned because Caryn is breaking down how you too can use your coaching expertise to attract the right people.
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Transcript
Caryn Gillen:
If you’re a new coach, you went through training and then you’re like, oh my God, I have to have a business to do. This. It’s terrifying, it’s overwhelming for some people and for some people it even puts them into like a freeze nervous system. You have to go help people. You have to figure out how can I get good at what I do, get better at what I do, and every you know four to seven people that we help. We learn something new about who our person is and who our person isn’t. So, as soon as you can just get out there creating whatever offer you can, it doesn’t have to be perfect, pretty beautiful, a plus. It has to just be something where you get to bounce off of another human being and really understand how you help at another level.
Brad Powell:
Welcome to the Standout Business Show, where it’s all about making a bigger difference by doing business differently. I’m Brad Powell and today I’m asking the question what’s your superpower? Well, if you’re a coach, your superpower most likely is your coaching. What’s going to send you apart from all the other coaches is your talent for helping clients work through their challenges and overcome obstacles that are standing in their way. But if you want to coach more and have a successful coaching practice, you need to do more marketing.
Brad Powell:
So what if simply showcasing your talent as a coach could actually become the main activity in your marketing? Well, to talk about how to do just that is this week’s guest, karin Gillen, and she helps coaches grow businesses as great as their coaching. I heard Karin being interviewed on the Art of Online Business podcast, where she shared how she’s able to close 100% of her discovery calls without really having to sell, and her method really boils down to simply showing the world her skills as a coach. So stay tuned, because Karin is breaking down how you, too, can use your coaching expertise to attract the right people, and if that sounds good, let’s start the show. Okay, karin, welcome to the show.
Caryn Gillen:
Thank you, good to be here.
Brad Powell:
Yeah. So it seems like coaches have an issue around the world of marketing and there are many coaches that this seems to be a point of struggle for them. And they’re super brilliant at what they do, They’ve got a lot of talent and yet their business may be just kind of sputtering along or they’re going through that roller coaster of some months they’re busy, other months not so much, Right. So, from your perspective, as someone who deals with this kind of thing all the time, what are you seeing that is holding coaches back from having a healthier business?
Caryn Gillen:
Most of the time it’s that they didn’t plan on being business owners. They didn’t come from a business background, so it doesn’t come naturally to them. It’s like learning a new operating system. It’s hard, right, it’s hard to go from a PC to a Mac or vice versa. And I think because it’s not natural and coaching for many of us often feels so natural it feels like maybe we’re doing something wrong or we’re just not cut out for it. And I think if you can be a coach, you can be an incredible business owner, an incredible marketer, and you just have to learn, like, what are the things that really tie it all together for me? But in the beginning, you’re right, it can get a little clunky.
Brad Powell:
Clunky is right. Well, that’s. That’s a really good metaphor between the Mac and the PC. I’m not quite sure which one people are starting with.
Caryn Gillen:
Me either.
Brad Powell:
But it’s definitely tricky when you’re switching over, like it’s a whole new set of hats to wear when you are now getting the role of running your business and it’s a lot of unexpected stuff that people didn’t really sign up for. It’s like wait, I thought I was going to do this great work and now I have to. What? Be an accountant, right, I have to market myself like I don’t. That doesn’t feel very good to me or it doesn’t feel very comfortable. So if we zero in on just the marketing part of being a business owner and just the job of, first of all, getting really clear on what your messaging is and getting really clear on your own point of view of how you see the world and then being able to communicate that with the group of people who are right for you, when you’re talking to people and helping them take the first steps in this, what are, what are the beginning stages of where you point them, go, help people?
Caryn Gillen:
right, that’s a good one. Can I get good at what I do, get better at what I do? And every you know four to seven people that we help. We learn something new about who our person is and who our person isn’t. So, as soon as you can just get out there creating whatever offer you can, it doesn’t have to be perfect, pretty, beautiful, a plus. It has to just be something where you get to bounce off of another human being and really understand how you help at another level.
Brad Powell:
Yeah, show how you can help people by actually helping them.
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah, yeah, get out there for those first. Get the reps in, so to speak.
Brad Powell:
Right, and you also take this and apply this directly into your marketing, in that literally demonstrating, through the marketing messages that you’re doing, that you can help by helping, like literally using your coaching and your skill in the coaching world in your marketing. So let’s talk a little bit about that.
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah. So I think oftentimes we become coaches and then we want to go out and educate the world on what a coach is. The world doesn’t care. The world wants to know. Like the world doesn’t think about, I want to go to a deli where they use Fran’s bread to make the sandwich. They don’t care, they want a sandwich.
Caryn Gillen:
So how do we skip all the part that we care about, which is like coaching and coaching tools and you know whatever the all the jargony stuff we could think about, and just get to the good part, which is the transformation?
Caryn Gillen:
So how do I show up in a way that I’m bringing people into transformation in my marketing, not information, like if you’re selling courses and that sort of thing? There’s a lot of information marketing, but how do we do transformational marketing and let people in on, like what is that feeling that every single one of us who has decided to go through coach training has had, which is that I’ve had that aha moment and I want more. And our potential clients need to feel that from us. They need to understand that if I want that experience, I go to them, versus she’s just going to tell me a bunch of cool facts about coaching. Like that’s not going to change my life, but what will is if, like, the powerful question that you might ask me in a session, is here for me to ask and answer right now, out here in your marketing.
Brad Powell:
Yeah, that’s super powerful in terms of having people go through at least a part of the transformation that they would be experiencing when they’re going to be working with you. Because, you’re right, when you go to someone and say, hey, I’ve got these great ideas for you, and here’s my list over here and it is a bunch of information, and a lot of that information is already available out there elsewhere, like you’re, yeah and it’s in every self-help book ever written already right, it is you know like, and so this is where you know the competition is is huge and stiff and fierce and
Brad Powell:
yet when you are able to in experience like my background is in experiential education and it was all about learning by doing and it wasn’t about learning by you know, I’m going to tell you stuff. It’s like let’s go experience this and and something’s going to happen Like big time change is going to happen through this experience and that method worked so remarkably well. Change happens on a daily basis and maybe even hourly, and I’m just a big believer in holding forth around. We’re going to have an experience here. Here’s what it feels like and it creates that emotional connection. So talk a little bit about the importance of the emotional side, of helping people see what it is like to work with you.
Caryn Gillen:
Well, selling is an emotional art, just like coaching is, and in order for someone to buy something from us, they have to have a felt experience. So we want to make sure that whatever we’re putting out there gets them to those feelings they need to really feel like that sense of that mind bending, like, oh my God, I didn’t even think that was possible, or I never even knew that I had that in me, or whatever that thing is that your person is looking for. And we want to get them into those feelings as often as possible. We want to be associated in their mind with that kind of felt sense of being a human. We want to walk into a room and have people already have felt us right Because they’ve seen our marketing, because they understand, oh, like she’s that person who does this, or I remember that one thing that she did and it sticks with people.
Brad Powell:
All right. Well, from a practical point of view, people are familiar with. Well, if I’m marketing, maybe I need to go to a networking event, or maybe I need to post some stuff on Instagram or you know, whatever site you want to pick, and so when I’m wanting to do this more experiential thing and actually carry people through the experience of the change that they’re wanting to make happen for themselves, how does that translate in something like an Instagram post or in any other kind of thing that people might be thinking about doing?
Caryn Gillen:
I think one of the greatest things we can do and this is part of why I say get out there and help people is the second. You help someone, you have the content that you need to go share next. So if I have a session this afternoon at 3 pm, I know that I could get off of that session and think back like, okay, what was at the core of what I worked on with them and what could my market benefit from? And if it’s too big to think market, just think what’s one person’s takeaway here? What do I want one person to have as they listen to this Instagram reel or this LinkedIn live? Like so I just really go from my environment. I’m helping people.
Caryn Gillen:
I’m thinking through what do they have going on and how does this help the broader community that I’m a part of? How can I use this to highlight what I’m really good at? So if you come in and you’re working on how to market yourself as a life coach and I’m really good at being a life coach and I want all the other life coaches to see, like, here’s the ways that I do that I’ve created different freebies and then I go talk about those on social media. I’ve created a freebie where I have people go through 30 days of powerful questions, because those are all coaching and really coach related things. Every day can be a transformation for 30 days. So for me I’m always pulling from my environment and looking at how can I put that out there in a way that helps that one person that I know I want to help next.
Brad Powell:
Yeah, I know that a practice that I do myself and I also share with clients is just go back through what you did last week, look at your calendar and then ask questions like well, what problems did I solve this week and what questions? Did I answer, and what experiences did I have that manifested? Some cool thing you know, and that’s the stuff that you know. All of a sudden, you have a lot of really good things to share that are right in line with what you’re talking about.
Caryn Gillen:
Exactly yeah, the world is rich.
Brad Powell:
The world is rich and it, you know, and it really cures that, that problem that people seem to have when it comes to creating content which is like what am I going to talk about and I don’t you know, like that blank screen of, of despair.
Caryn Gillen:
I think another really good cue for people is like what’s pissing me off lately, right, like you could have a friend who like never listens to you, but you could go tell your whole market about it. Or you could have places where you’re like feeling like you’re really in flow and everything is working. That’s content too, because there’s something happening for you, where you’re in alignment, your values are on point and you can highlight what’s happening underneath what’s happening. And how can I share that so people can get there too?
Brad Powell:
I want to go back to in the beginning. You were talking about go out and find someone and coach them. Go help someone. So you put these two things together. Okay, so simple thing find someone to coach, go help them and then, from that experience, share that with the rest of the world. Take that and go forward, and you are doing this in a couple of different ways, one of which is that your podcast is really a whole bunch of coaching.
Caryn Gillen:
It is yeah.
Brad Powell:
So talk a little bit about, like, when you started your podcast, what did it look like? And and the transition into what you’re doing with it now.
Caryn Gillen:
Well, when I started it, however, 150 episodes ago, it was called when I’m in charge.
Caryn Gillen:
That’ll be different, and what I learned from that is you know that’s a it’s a time limited podcast and that was really about me. I had all these people I wanted to interview and so I did it and it was fun. And then I realized I only want to talk to coaches. So I got clearer and clearer and then I thought, you know, it’d be really cool, because what I know is when somebody feels me coach whether it’s themselves or me Get it, and so if I can coach live on the podcast, people are going to feel that and then they’re going to hire me and so far that’s been working. And what was really surprising to me is how many people were willing to sign up to be coached live and not even anonymously get on my podcast and talk business and be coached on business and really let me show and share what it is I do with people, generally behind closed doors, confidentially, where no one else can hear it. So it’s, as it’s, what I really call bringing the backstage front stage.
Brad Powell:
Yeah, that’s really cool. So when you’re doing it, are you just recording an episode or are you actually doing it live as a live stream?
Caryn Gillen:
I’m just recording the episode.
Brad Powell:
Okay, all right, so not quite as out there.
Caryn Gillen:
Not live. Live, good though I mean I might as well, because I don’t do any editing.
Brad Powell:
It’s like okay great, yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah, so that’s a really. It’s like okay, great, yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah, so that’s a really. I mean just from again practical standpoint, that’s a very easy step compared to what a lot of other people have to go through when they’re producing a podcast, because if you’re recording it and there’s no editing, the editing part is really kind of the big balding neck and producing something like a podcast.
Caryn Gillen:
So that’s why I don’t do it. I’m like what’s the fastest way and the cheapest way? I’m really interested in doing business in a really sustainable way, and if I can eliminate one whole thing that I’d have to pay for, I’m all about it yeah right, All right.
Brad Powell:
So one of the results that I’ve heard about you doing this is that when people get on a discovery call with you, they’re pretty much already ready to go. They’re like saying okay, yes, and you’re not having to pitch or sell them, so talk about why that is. Why is that working so well?
Caryn Gillen:
Yes, and I feel like part of that 100% close rate is one the fact that I haven’t done a lot of cold marketing. I don’t have Facebook ads running and I am very much the same person whether I’m on my podcast, whether I’m on your podcast, whether I’m on social media, whether I’m in my email inbox, like I’m me wherever I go. So there’s a lot of alignment that I have built in that helps people feel comfortable and they know what they’re going to get, no matter where they meet me. So, because there’s not all that cold marketing, everyone who comes in it’s organic and there’s someone who has taken in my content in some way, or they’ve come directly from a referral from a former client or from connecting with me in a Facebook group or through my podcast, so everything’s already warmed up.
Caryn Gillen:
I’m not having to do 27 consults to get four clients because everyone already knows me, and I think this isn’t necessarily the goal for business. I think it would probably be wise of me to get myself out there and some more cold directions and bring a few more people around. This is just what’s happening right now, so I don’t want people shooting for a hundred percent. I think a 50% close rate is amazing, but that’s where I’m at right now.
Brad Powell:
It’s very good. A hundred percent is quite good.
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah, it’s kind of ridiculous actually, like it’s a little silly.
Brad Powell:
Right, but then you know, 50% is also good. Actually, if anybody’s doing that, they’re doing really well. It’s the goal. Yeah, absolutely, and so a while ago I had a guest on by the name of Pamela Slim. I don’t know if you know of her work.
Caryn Gillen:
I do know of Pamela Slim. I have her book on my shelf.
Brad Powell:
Yeah right, the Whitest Net and some other ones are really great books that I highly recommend. When she was talking about, what we explored in the interview with her was something that she calls the beacon, which is basically a place, which is your body of work, so that just when you’re talking about, like when you’re out in the world and people see you and encounter you, it’s really great if you have a place where they can go and just completely take a deep dive and learn all about you and your point of view and how you are and what it’s like to work with you and really get that feeling. And you seem to be doing this remarkably well with the podcast that you’ve produced as your particular beacon. Thank you.
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah.
Brad Powell:
And so when you think about the future of okay, so it’s evolved to this state what are you thinking about going forward? Have you got ideas for some evolution of the kind of stuff you’re up to from a marketing perspective?
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah, I think one of the things I learned this year is that I need to be my own voice on my podcast more often. So I’m really good at showing up and coaching. It’s super easy for me and I love doing it, and I know that those episodes land really well. They’re like usually the most listened to episodes, and I also know that people like to know what I think about things, and when I’m coaching and I’m holding space for someone else, I do a little bit of that, but not quite what I could do. So this year I’m going to really focus on doing more solo episodes that are more of that Like this is my beacon, this is my lighthouse. These are the things that matter to me. This is what I care about, this is what I think is important, so that people are really hearing, not just guests or me coaching, but they’re hearing like here’s what this person is all about, here’s what they care about and here’s some helpful stuff that I can take and run with.
Brad Powell:
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I mean I do an interview show and it’s a little bit of a push me, pull you thing of. I really like having conversations like this, like it’s just a much more enjoyable way to show up. Plus I get to meet really cool people and learn stuff.
Brad Powell:
I’m in my own discovery process of people who you know like. Meeting somebody like Pamela Slim was a treat and at the same time I’ve been trying in this last year to show up more as just me, and the best I’ve done so far is maybe one third of the time I’ll do a solo episode, and remembering and trying to fit that into the schedule I find a challenge, and the other part about it is I also find that I am not enjoying just solo episodes nearly as much as having conversation, and it’s just an interesting thing. I know some people it’s what they prefer. They’re just really good at it, and so this is a skill that I’m wanting to develop for myself for sure.
Caryn Gillen:
You know what can be fun is having someone interview you on your own podcast, Right? I’ve done that a few times and that’s probably the sweetest thing.
Brad Powell:
Right, right. Well, that’s what I need to do is get maybe some past guests and say look, how would you like to come back on again? Only this time, interview me.
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah.
Brad Powell:
You know my work is interviewing people. I help them make short video content by sitting down with me for an hour and I interview them and I pull out some of their best stuff and then that content gets turned into short form video.
Brad Powell:
So you know for them. They just spend an hour with me and they get a month worth of content all done and sent, and you know they. All they have to do is spend that one hour. But it’s very fun and easy and relaxed in that you know there’s no script and people don’t have to try and remember things and there are no mistakes. Things get edited really tightly and so that stuff just gets left behind. It just appears Magical. So I’m just getting a little light bulb in my head, of like.
Caryn Gillen:
of course, you already have all the good questions. You just need someone to ask you.
Brad Powell:
That’s right, I got them all. They’re all like I have more than enough. That’s so great, all right. Well, we’re getting close to the end of our time today and let’s talk a little bit more about just the range of things. We’ve only touched on a couple of them. You have your podcast. You have ideas for posting on social media. Are there other things that people could be thinking about when it comes to literally showcasing their coaching and their skill as a coach?
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah, I think any way. Think about who you are as a coach and what you’re great at and then ask yourself, how can I bring that to the front stage? And the front stage can be anywhere. It can be social media, it could be I’m going to run a local workshop at my public library because it’s free to do that. Or in your health food store with the education room off the side of it. You can do an event right and have a little meetup. You can do anything where you get to position yourself as the leader in the room and as someone who has the skills that you have.
Caryn Gillen:
So it’s sort of that idea of making the big time where you are like, just take whatever it is you’re great at and get it out into the front of the world. You could get you know if you’re a brand new coach. You could ask 10 and I would email people one-on-one 10 of your friends. Hey, can I? Can I coach you for 30 minutes and use video clips from that of me talking? You don’t even have to use the stuff of them.
Caryn Gillen:
You can do the same thing but just post 15 minute coaching seats like hot seat calls live on your LinkedIn. You can share just private videos inside of your newsletter and say that’s the reason to join my list. You want to join my list because that’s the only place that I show and share exactly how I do this coaching with folks and you can watch those. Because people love coach TV. People just love to watch people in the hot seat getting coached and it’s this really beautiful experience for someone watching to get to have the benefit of the questions without the nervousness of being the one in the hot seat. So I am just a fan of like anywhere and everywhere, I don’t even care, I don’t even care where you highlight yourself and you show up the best way that you can with your greatest skills up front, which is usually coaching, holding space and asking great questions.
Brad Powell:
Just do the thing that you’re really great at. Turn that into your marketing. Yeah, let them see you. Really good formula. Well, I know for a fact that in my experience, whenever I’ve been working with a coach and I see them coaching other people and some really cool thing happens in that process, I’m immediately going I want that, Like I want them to do that.
Caryn Gillen:
I want what she’s having. I want it.
Brad Powell:
Yes, exactly. Yeah, that’s a really good pop reference. Yeah, that’s so great. All right, well, that’s a really good note for us. To close on, karin. If people want to reach out to you, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Caryn Gillen:
I am at Karin Gillen, everywhere with my weirdly spelled name and I’ve got a website, but I’m really all the places, so you can DM me or shoot a message from anywhere and I’ll be there.
Brad Powell:
All right, well, I’ll make sure that links to your stuff are in the show notes. Thank you, and Karin, thanks so much for coming on today. This has been really great.
Caryn Gillen:
Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s been really fun to be here and talk this through.
